Thinking About Size
I shouldn’t be surprised how many ways there are to dismiss people and things with a word or a gesture. Humanity revels in differentiating one group from another. On a near insignificant level it happens with motorcycles and scooters. “That’s an entry level bike,” or “That’s a chick bike,” can be taken in a number of ways. At least the first phrase.
Entry level can refer to a machine that’s easy to handle for a beginning rider — light, nimble and manageable power. Or it can mean a first step in a series of machines leading to a logical end — an arbitrary assessment by the person applying the phrase. Usually it means a path to a larger, more powerful machine and assumes bigger is better. And then entry level can be applied as a dismissive term — only losers and cowards, the Casper Milktoasts of riders would even consider such a machine.
The more straightforward dismissal is to refer to a motorcycle as a chick bike — as if I real man would not be caught dead on such a device. I always wonder if women riders have some similar dismissive terms for various motorcycles and scooters. I know they have them for pick up trucks and the boys that drive them. Often it’s just a hand signal involving the thumb and index finger.
Scooters are all entry level machines from one perspective. And even among scooter riders there’s a hierarchy. The only chick scooters seem to be the pink ones.
When my friend Paul and I rode to breakfast last weekend I was in the odd position of having the “big” machine. The Vespa GTS 250 dwarfs the 1965 Vespa. But the real story — the vintage Vespa moved along just as fast as the new one on the roads we traveled.
Vintage Vespa Scooter or Harley Trike
The juxaposition of the vintage scooter with the modern Harley trike is like two ends of a scale with myriad scooters and motorcycles in between. I’ve been considering the purchase of various motorcycles and find myself thinking of a chick bike (BMW G650 GS) and an entry level motorcycle (Kawasaki KLR650). In our consumer culture of bigger equaling better it’s easy to understand the marketing and advertising to create these ideas and continue to drive more expensive purchases and hence larger profits.
I’m never in need of more power on my Vespa. For the riding I do it’s sufficient. It can function as an entry level scooter, chick scooter and advanced scooter. It all depends on what i want from the experience.
The same applies to the 650GS and the KLR — entry level because they’re relatively inexpensive and much bigger machines available.
How Do You Choose a Scooter or Motorcycle?
What drives purchase decisions are varied — something as simple as money to as complex as a personality deficiency crying out for an something external to fill it. How you want to ride, where you want to ride and how much time you have factor into a decision. So does riding skill, physical ability and health, and what you like and don’t like. During this process is where “entry level” and “chick bike” can really have a profound negative effect, especially when those machines may absolutely be the best choice.
I’m thinking a lot about a chick bike lately. Being a scooter rider, that’s a step up.
I guess it’s all perspective about what is an entry level and chick bike. To me entry level is a 250-300cc bike. Chick bike well thats totally different because I know quite a few chicks who ride everything. I ride a 700cc bike and some may consider that ‘entry level or a chick bike’ , but I haven’t bought into the bigger is always better thought process. My bike has lots of low end torque and it rides very efficiently gas wise. I also think that it’s more how you ride it than the size or engine displacement. I see a lot of ‘dudes’ on very big & high cc bikes and they can’t ride well at all, so if they are making up for lack of skills because they have the ‘hey look at my big bike’ I’m not impressed. Its not about the cc’s it’s about how you use them.
I suppose the problem I have with entry level is not so much that something is a starting point, but the fact that it’s dismissed as a possible ending point. The drive toward bigger seems mindless in many cases.
When, as you say, consider use and need, then the size of the machine takes on a different quality.
Its funny because I’ve had this very conversation with other riders who are thinking of ‘down grading’ for the lack og a better term. Quite a few common points are the weight of the behemoth bikes they are riding and that they do want something more nimble and flickable. I think there does come a time when sometimes less is more, particularly as we get older and can’t muscle around tge big bikes any longer or choose not to, I also think that the market has reached a saturation point for big bikes for a few reasons, bigger usually means more money, higher insurance rates, changing/aging demographic which are supporting big bike purchases anymore and new riders looking to get a nimble machine that isn’t going to bust the bank when purchased and lets face it the boomers are aging out and many are hanging up the keys and trading their bikes in for sports cars so they can still experience the wind in their face rrom a mch more comfortable vantage point. So I agree entry level doesn’t necessarily mean beginning point, I just think ‘exit level’ bike isn’t exactly a positive strategy marketting bikes to an aging demographic.
The entire conversation around the size of motorcycles is kind of pre-rigged to favor the “bigger is better” idea. Or at least that in most cases, a progression exists. And for those not gullible enough to swallow that logic, there’s the function and convenience argument of seat comfort, accessories, payload capacity and a raft of other things that disqualify smaller machines from those conversations. Certainly works in the four wheel world.
You raise perhaps the most important consideration — our bodies, especially as it surfaces with aging. Most already embrace choices related to their height. Adding the machine’s weight and our ability to manage it would be an important area as well.
I suppose as long as each of us as individuals recognize our needs and limits as informed riders, then we’ll make the right decision for ourselves. But absent that recognition, you’re left choosing for questionable reasons.
I’ve found my Vespa sweet spot in the 150 cc air cooled engine of the early automatics. And yet I see a new generation of 300 cc motorcycles which look intriguing. Ask Trobaritz about her 300cc ADV bike. Were I looking for a bike I’d be pondering that class of new entries to the US market.
I love seeing the resurgence of smaller cc bikes, so many benefits from purchase cost, lighter, less money spent on insurance. In Asia and Europe the small cc bikes are king.
Yeah, the 300 cc adv bikes intrigue me, as well — as the 650s seem overkill for the mellow, scooterish, gravel and Forest Service road riding I’d like to do here in rural Idaho, and the GT200 isn’t quite up to it.
As a kid in the early 80s my brother and I both had 250 cc “enduro”/dual sport bikes and even then it seemed the then new 400 cc Yamaha four-stroke XTs represented the Golden Mean. I sure wish they still made those.
On the other hand, having just driven down to CA and back I was reminded that much of the country is now covered in interstates with speed limits up to 80 (!!) mph, so I get the push for heavier, larger bikes, and how lil XT250s etc. just won’t…quite…cut it, and even an XT400 would probably appeal to a small market. Meanwhile the DRZ400’s don’t exactly seemed designed for us slow-rolling geezers.
Trust me, my new 300 cc bike gets described as a bike geared to females in almost every article. In fact on one Facebook post from a reputable motorcycle magazine I even asked why they referred to girls as the target audience in their article.
I say if a girl is riding it, it is a girls bike. If a guy is riding it, it is a guys bike. Not sure why folks have to put labels on everything.
Comedian Eddie Izzard was once asked why he wore women’s clothes and his response was ” They’re not women’s clothes. They’re my clothes, I bought them.” Truer words were never said.
Amen 👊🏻 👍🏻
Lots of choices for sure. If a person removed interstate highways and travel speeds of 80mph plus from the equation, the notion of entry level might change. Or at least what constituted a motorcycle goal in terms of performance.
The Kawasaki Versys 300 looks like a great motorcycle — entry level or otherwise. The older I get the more attention I pay to the weight of the machine and my desire to have something light and flexible.
With so many forest roads and trails around here part of the desire for a motorcycle is to have something a bit more at home in that environment. The Vespa can take me there but it does take a beating. And when I come to water and mud I find the limits of the scooter…
I’ve been paying attention to this and it seems the term “chick bike” is mostly used by “weekend warriors”. I put on more miles per year with my 1250cc sportster chick bike, which is a back up bike, than many of the bikers making these comments. None of it matters.
The last time I rode a KLR I couldn’t come close to flat footing it. In my opinion that means it wouldn’t make a good beginner bike, unless a few scratches are ok.
The mythcal “all rounder” is a goal…not yet reality for me.
Thats why u need At least 4 bikes.
Fit supercedes all…ergonomics over economics.
and….As the Brits say…horses for courses.
As for the KLR…Steve has sufficient inseam.
I think the KLR is meant to be dropped and scratched. At least judging from the YouTube videos I’ve been watching.
I can easily flatfoot the KLR despite it’s height. It’s always been a comfortable and satisfying ride for me.
My DR650 is lighter, friendlier on trails, but I’m told the KLR is better long distance…
Being vertically challenged the Kawi was not an option for me.
Big bore singles are fun.
well said! first time commenting here but this one hits home for me. i’m still on my first bike i got 3 years ago…a 2000 Suzuki Savage 650cc. i absolutely love it every time i get on it. i typically ride back windy roads and have a blast in central pa. i know lots of harley riders so i’ve heard more times than i can count “when are you getting a REAL bike?” and some day i do want to get a bigger and newer bike but i can see myself possibly keeping this one for a long time. it got me into biking and i’ve done a good bit of little mods to it and learned a lot about how it all works along the way. the other kicker and reason i always laugh those comments off is that they paid $10k….20k….even 30k!! for their harley’s and guess what i paid for my bike………$1000. and i can’t imagine they’re having 30x more fun than i am when i’m out in farm country hitting the back windy roads.
p.s. i’m hoping we get a nice first wednesday weather soon so i can bring the savage out to boalsburg but so far i haven’t been able to make it. i will eventually!
“Back country twisty road” bike….thats one…
Welcome to the sticks Nate!
If you think too long about the difference between the performance of a used motorcycle (or car for that matter) and the cost of a new one, well, it just seems insane. While I understand the lure of a shiny new vehicle, the fiscal realities make no sense to me. Even if I have the money. But I suppose that’s a subject for some other blog…
Riding the back roads of central Pennsylvania is a joy on whatever machine you might be piloting. The Suzuki Savage looks like a “REAL” motorcycle — at least what I thought they looked like as a kid. It’s simple, straightforward cruiser look is great. And it would be perfect for those windy roads.
Look forward to seeing you sometime at a Moto Hang. Be safe on the road until then.
I have a Ducati 999s parked along side a Ducati Streetfighter and a Drz400, guess which one gets ridden the most? The Drz is simple, fun, easy to throw around, reliable, cheap to operate and gets great fuel economy. For me, most of my riding is in town, but I can throw the Drz on a trailer and go back country riding too! The Ducs are amazing as well, they are just tougher to ride around town, I guess it is all a matter of perspective and what you want to do. I often wonder if I got a scooter, would the Drz get parked too?
A good scooter is seductive. The challenge for many is getting past all the identity baggage they bring for some.
The Vespa GTS scooter is a fine riding instrument and unique in it’s own way. Not suited to every riding task but it can get you from A to B in most cases…
A very experienced and knowledgeable riding buddy of mine recently stated “While the motorcycle/scooter may be the perfect vehicle, there is no such thing as the perfect motorcycle/scooter”. Like most everything else in life, any choice involves compromises.
And I don’t want a garage full of different machines. Just me.
I’ve lived with one choice for a long time and have been quite happy. Now that I might have more time to ride, would be nice to add a second choice.
Can’t picture more than that though.
I hate that spin on words, “entry level.” It’s the same marketing speak used by real estate agents. Here, buy this now and when your mature enough and have more money come back to me and I’ll sell you something more expensive. In the off road/adventure rider world there’s been a back lash against big 900cc and up adventure bikes. Serious adventure and dual sport riders are now seeking light weight 200 to 400 lb. bikes. Hence the popularity of KTM, Beta, Gas-Gas, etc. The DRZ400, as Chris B says above, is a great bike in that same category. I’ve had 2 of them.
Starter homes and entry level bikes — a path for surrendering cash for the rest of your life. Great marketing strategy that touches some psychological fear and not being good enough. So on and on the buying cycle goes…
I still see a lot of huge adventure bikes. Usually ridden by old guys like us.
I’ve ridden Paul’s DRZ400 Supermoto and it was fun. Never tried the straight dirt bike version.
My steed matches Steve’s to a T (except I sprung for the Vespa topcase).
Since owning the 300 GTS ie (six years) I’ve also had a;
2012 BMW Dakar-saw a couple guys heading to Alaska while Kathy and I were on a scooter vacation in Big Sur, then 3 chicks riding from Mexico to the Bay Area on another Big Sur Vespa vacation, felt small and diminished in comparison.
2013 Gas Gas 350 trails bike-reminiscing and clearly a mid-life crisis/moment, my skills had flown the coop back in the 70’s and no amount of injuries could bring them back.
Kathy and I just returned from another Big Sur vacation staying in Carmel and then down to a lodge on the Big Sur River just north of the collapsed bridge. We packed plenty of clothes, first-aid kit, snacks, water and between the front rack, topcase, pet-carrier (Vesparitos know this is the area under the lift-up seat) and ubiquitous fold-out cowling hook (Vespas have had the hook for over 60 years) we had everything we needed (and more) and still managed 70mpg at an average speed of 45 mph!
While owning the Dakar, I received one compliment in a grocery parking lot, from a motorcycle-guy.
Since owning our Vespa, we commonly receive compliments at stop-signs/lights, beeps from soccer-moms with van-loads of grinning kids and generally enjoy a vibe of goodwill.
I now understand that this is my “life” bike, the one I was meant to own for life and truly, there is no better conveyance I’ve seen, certainly no funner or economical or easier to ride.
Each to his/her own but…Vespas rule!
Will, I think you’ve found the same delight with the GTS that I have. It does so many things and generates so many smiles while riding that it’s hard to accept. I just love my Vespa and can’t imagine a time without one. And while I could set up the scooter with more aggressive tires for dirt and gravel, I think something like a KLR or G650 GS would make riding on the local forest roads and trails far more pleasant.
My electrician call any vehicle chord of a 3/4 ton, crew cab, diesel, pickup “Chick.” Heaven forbid it’s not a Dodge. On the other had another coworker, after buying a Harley because he didn’t want to listen to his friends give him crap for what he rides told me, “I wish I could not give a shit about what other people think like you.” Funny thing is if I’m buying something I don’t care what others think, with the exception of my wife, if it’s what floats my boat. I still remember when the Goldwing came out thinking that it was a monster. Who would ever need a bike that big?
My uncle when faced with the dilemma of his DR400 being too buzzy on the highway and his RT1100 being to big to load on the back of his 5th wheel. When out looking for a bike, he was originally looking at the KLR 650. He was having a hard time finding one but with the moods he wanted and the prices were higher than the twin cylinder GS 650. He now regularly rides the GS both on and off road, and from LA to Prescott Az.
The only reason I think of big bikes is in the comfort of my wife. After several back surgery the limitation of the Burgman suspension limits her ability to ride with me. Otherwise everything I look at falls under the heading chick and entry.
There are certainly lots of legitimate reasons for big bikes (and Dodge diesel trucks!). But it seems so often the driver of choices has little to do with those reasons and more to do with the pressure of peers and expectations.
I remember a younger, hunting self. I was using a .410 shotgun when all my friends were shooting 12 gauge. In response to their taunting I explained not everyone is a good enough shot to hunt with a 410. That reduced the taunts to grumbles. For whatever reason, since I was young, I was pretty immune to the pressure of others.
Still watching a local G650 GS…
I like the G650GS as well as its predecessor, the F650GS (single). Another bike that I’ve always liked was the older airhead R80G/S but they are getting hard to find. I’m finding it harder and harder to justify a bike that I can only ride for 4 months of the year. After all, that’s why I went towards sidecar rigs.
The newer breed of smaller displacement dual-sport bikes are interesting.
With heated grips and plenty of power for electrics I could ride a G650 pretty much year round. For the messy winter stuff, the Vespa would be the ride of choice though.
There is no such thing as a chick bike. That’s part of the societal illusion. But we can say “Women tend to buy such and such motorcycles” if the data supports it. When i heard my friend D say, “Sportsters are chick bikes” I wondered if he was even in the same universe as me. Identifying with our motorcycles is a no win situation. Enjoying what you got, pays benefits immediately. Paul
I thought Road Kings were chick bikes? I’m confused…
“Entry level motorcycles and chick bikes”
Motorcyclists are so dang insecure. They have to label bikes to make sure that whatever they are riding is in the right category. Mostly macho, masculine machines to show off their macho, masculine personality. Sheesh!
I ride scooters and drive a Miata. And I am a straight male. Can you believe it?
I just enjoy having fun while traveling. The scooters are the best but the old Miata is a blast to drive.
So, all I can say is, don’t let the labels throw you.
Get whatever you like.
Bill
Labels. They’re great at times. Because I get most of my clothes at Woolrich and LL Bean someone suggested that I could be confused as lumbersexual. I always thought I was comfort sexual…
I have a 750cc Kawasaki alongside my 250 scooter and 250 Rebel. I leave labels to the weak minded. The ride is the thing. It’s not important what you ride. It’s that you ride.
Jim — I’m going to steal part of your comment for a future post — “The Weak Minded.” That has me thinking…
Let me be blunt. It’s all a load of crap. By the scale of size they use today a 1973 Kawasaki 900cc Z-1 would be a middleweight, a 1966 650cc Triumph Bonneville would be a lightweight and a 1969 Kawasaki 500cc H-1 Triple would be entry level. I defy anyone to put a new rider on an H-1 with drum front brakes and see him do the MSF Basic Rider Course.
Bike sizes have all been scaled to accommodate 2300cc Triumph Rocket Three’s and 110 cubic inch Harley Screaming Eagles. They call those monster bikes”Heavyweights” instead of “Ocean Liners”.
Don’t get me started on 110 mph 300cc Ninjas as entry level.
I did take my test on a two stroke triple. I don’t know what the basic rider course consists of but when I got my license it was just a matter of riding around a few cones, stopping as fast as possible and maybe popping a few wheelies.
The world envisioned by Madison Avenue and swallowed hook line and sinker by a large swath of the riding world.
Your reflections of the bikes of the past are dead on.
This predominantly seems to be a North American phenomenon, Steve. At least here in Germany it is fairly normal that the big boys ride smaller cc bikes without the “mine is bigger, larger, better” comparison.
However, if it weren’t for the mildly offensive labelling I would have never come to own a 883 Sportster which was previously owned by a Canadian guy who had felt threatened in his manhood by riding what his buddies described as a “chick bike”. He was desperate to lose it, and made me a purchase offer I couldn’t refuse, and his new “man bike” was already in his garage 😉
I could never understand that moniker applied to the Harley 883. By every measure I know, it’s a big, heavy bike. But I suppose when there’s something bigger available all else pales…
Even though that particular twist may be a North American, I can’t believe that there’s not some other similar mindset in play everywhere.
Great thread Steve.
Since retirement I’ve picked up a TW200 Yamaha trail bike, which is serviceable, but may not last.
I’ve recently been in Italy and studied the huge scooter traffic there, and I have a question for you regarding the “ride” given by the trailing link suspension on the Veapas vs the more common front fork configuation of other scooters and motorcycles. I’ve read that Vespa has continually updated/upgraded the handling and braking of the trailing link over the years, but would like your subjective opinion on how the ride differs from a motorcycle of similar weight/displacement.
Differing wheel size aside, do you find that the front tire rolls over pavement irregularities more comfortably, etc?
Though I like riding my small bike, I’m considering a replacement, and scooters park for free in Toronto…
Thanks for your thoughts.
I find the ride on the Vespa to be quite pleasant. While certainly not like a motorcycle due to the smaller tires it has it’s own unique character. The Vespa is nimble in it’s ability to dart and dodge on the road. Some find this a bit unsettling compared to motorcycles that respond much more slowly, or at least require more positive inputs on the machine to respond.
The suspension is adequate to give a fine ride on smooth pavement and is ok on rougher stuff. Big potholes and obstacles are more challenging to deal with but I’ve never had any real problems.
The brakes, in my opinion, are outstanding. Having both brakes on the hand levers makes management of the braking process faster and positive. As will all motorcycles — the power is in the front brake. Both front and back are single rotor disc brakes and more than adequate to provide outstanding stopping power for the Vespa GTS.
I’ve ridden my Vespa in practically every sort of condition both on and off road. The only environs that the scooter is not up to are water crossings (the air intake is very low on the scoot) and deep mud and sand. More aggressive tires would help but even then the small wheels make navigation difficult.
On the pavement there is nothing I fear. The Vespa GTS will go anywhere on any highway.
Hope this helps.
At the young age of 40 I bought my first motorcycle – a tiny 125 dirt bike! After a few months, full throttle wasn’t enough so a rapid succession of larger bikes finally got me on the road. Suzuki, Yamaha, and finally a Harley. Brand didn’t matter – I have loved them all. I recently purchased a bike I thought was only in my head. 2017 Street Glide Special, Hot Rod Red with sparkles and flames, Screaming Eagle Stage 1 with S&S pipes. It roars! Now I hear – “that’s an awfully big bike for a girl”. Ha Ha!! My license plate says “Big Ass Toys Ain’t Just For Boys!” Size doesn’t matter, brand doesn’t matter, two wheels on the road is great for everyone!
Absolutely! There are so many choices for riding that a person just should ride what makes sense for them. And that can always change whether it’s moving to bigger machines or smaller machines.
The Street Glide Special is a lovely motorcycle. Did you get the matte black pipes? I’ve seen a couple around here but only in the sort of maroon color. Haven’t seen one in hot rod red with flames. That would be fantastic.
Be safe on that “bike not mean for a girl” !!! 😉