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	Comments on: Riders vs. Cagers: Is this the real battle?	</title>
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	<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/</link>
	<description>Exploring life on a Vespa Scooter and Royal Enfield Himalayan motorcycle.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Williams		</title>
		<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/#comment-216</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 13:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.195.124.229/~scootet3/?p=716#comment-216</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[steve:  I agree with you.  More needs to be done with drivers and safety.  One of the core issues for both riding and driving is that it is not solely transportation.  So many personal identity issues come up with the choices people make.  Style, image, compensation, ideas of freedom, and on and on.  If it was purely tansportation we would have to question the utility of vehicles and bikes that perform so far beyond the speed limits.  Or why there are not governor&#039;s on engines, blah and blah and blah.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My real concern is that each rider make an informed decision about their riding habits.  With scooters in particular new riders often think they are not dangerous and ride without helmets and protective gear because they think they don&#039;t need it.  If they understand the risks and dangers and choose to ride without then that&#039;s their decision to make.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You&#039;re right about the amounts of unfunded medical expenses being in total higher for drivers than riders.  The per incident cost though is much higher with riders because of the tendency for more catastrophic injury.  All accidents are a financial burden to society and it is something that needs to be managed.  The question is how.....&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for your comments.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;steve]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>steve:  I agree with you.  More needs to be done with drivers and safety.  One of the core issues for both riding and driving is that it is not solely transportation.  So many personal identity issues come up with the choices people make.  Style, image, compensation, ideas of freedom, and on and on.  If it was purely tansportation we would have to question the utility of vehicles and bikes that perform so far beyond the speed limits.  Or why there are not governor&#8217;s on engines, blah and blah and blah.</p>
<p>My real concern is that each rider make an informed decision about their riding habits.  With scooters in particular new riders often think they are not dangerous and ride without helmets and protective gear because they think they don&#8217;t need it.  If they understand the risks and dangers and choose to ride without then that&#8217;s their decision to make.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about the amounts of unfunded medical expenses being in total higher for drivers than riders.  The per incident cost though is much higher with riders because of the tendency for more catastrophic injury.  All accidents are a financial burden to society and it is something that needs to be managed.  The question is how&#8230;..</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>steve</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Johnson		</title>
		<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/#comment-215</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Johnson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 05:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.195.124.229/~scootet3/?p=716#comment-215</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The data shows a lot of medical costs ending up in my pocket. I would rather not pay for that sort of freedom but you are right, who draws the line and where does it end...&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The data on medical costs ending up in your pocket is skewed.  The fact is that there are more people getting injured in car accidents than on motorcycle accidents.  If you want to talk about the burden on public healthcare, let&#039;s talk about making car drivers wear helmets.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The data shows a lot of medical costs ending up in my pocket. I would rather not pay for that sort of freedom but you are right, who draws the line and where does it end&#8230;</i></p>
<p>The data on medical costs ending up in your pocket is skewed.  The fact is that there are more people getting injured in car accidents than on motorcycle accidents.  If you want to talk about the burden on public healthcare, let&#8217;s talk about making car drivers wear helmets.</p>
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		<title>
		By: irondad		</title>
		<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/#comment-214</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[irondad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 02:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.195.124.229/~scootet3/?p=716#comment-214</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Steve,&lt;br /&gt;There may be some truth to the fact that both riders and drivers will reflect their personalities regardless of vehicle.  I see that in my classes.  People of all sorts of temperments will come through.  I can&#039;t help but think they will take the same qualities with them.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Still, the problem is compounded, in my opinion, by the size of the vehicle.  Riders can&#039;t afford to be too aggressive in challenging other vehicles.  Riding also takes a lot more attention no matter our personality.  These things tend to either mellow us out or kill us.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In a car a driver can afford to be more distracted even though it isn&#039;t too smart.  A car is more insulating so a driver feels safer acting like a jerk.  So I think a car naturally amplifies bad qualities with less cost to the driver.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On top of that, drivers just aren&#039;t conditioned to look for bikes even if they are &quot;nice&quot; people.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Like has been well stated, we accept the risk.  I don&#039;t regard them as enemies, just potential hazards.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dan]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,<br />There may be some truth to the fact that both riders and drivers will reflect their personalities regardless of vehicle.  I see that in my classes.  People of all sorts of temperments will come through.  I can&#8217;t help but think they will take the same qualities with them.</p>
<p>Still, the problem is compounded, in my opinion, by the size of the vehicle.  Riders can&#8217;t afford to be too aggressive in challenging other vehicles.  Riding also takes a lot more attention no matter our personality.  These things tend to either mellow us out or kill us.</p>
<p>In a car a driver can afford to be more distracted even though it isn&#8217;t too smart.  A car is more insulating so a driver feels safer acting like a jerk.  So I think a car naturally amplifies bad qualities with less cost to the driver.  </p>
<p>On top of that, drivers just aren&#8217;t conditioned to look for bikes even if they are &#8220;nice&#8221; people.</p>
<p>Like has been well stated, we accept the risk.  I don&#8217;t regard them as enemies, just potential hazards.</p>
<p>Dan</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Williams		</title>
		<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/#comment-213</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 02:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.195.124.229/~scootet3/?p=716#comment-213</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[rog: Thanks for your comments.  The more I ride the more I see safety issues being affected by our culture and not just some mechanical set of riding rules.  Hence the cell phone user as drunk driver....  Can not imagine riding in a city let alone Taichung.  Be careful out there.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;steve:  The freedom vs legislation issue has always been a tough one for me and I tend to lean towards a more libertarian view.  But then economic reality also sets in and some freedoms touch my pocket book and are they really a freedom or just a style issue?  Helmets for instance.  The data shows a lot of medical costs ending up in my pocket.  I would rather not pay for that sort of freedom but you are right, who draws the line and where does it end...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Krysta:  Riding gear is important in my opinion and I am glad you feel the same way.  Thanks for bringing up the moto.donation site too.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Rob:  I will try and keep a consistent focus on safety.  No none should jump on a scooter or motorcycle without knowing all the facts.  Thanks for maintaining ride2die, it is an important tool.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;7500 hits a day!  Wow.  That is amazing and a testament to the power of your content.  For some it is probably a rubbernecking experience but I bet for many it is a sobering one.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;hrw115:  I&quot;ll check out moto-donations more closely and focus one of my blog entries on that sort of community action.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rog: Thanks for your comments.  The more I ride the more I see safety issues being affected by our culture and not just some mechanical set of riding rules.  Hence the cell phone user as drunk driver&#8230;.  Can not imagine riding in a city let alone Taichung.  Be careful out there.</p>
<p>steve:  The freedom vs legislation issue has always been a tough one for me and I tend to lean towards a more libertarian view.  But then economic reality also sets in and some freedoms touch my pocket book and are they really a freedom or just a style issue?  Helmets for instance.  The data shows a lot of medical costs ending up in my pocket.  I would rather not pay for that sort of freedom but you are right, who draws the line and where does it end&#8230;</p>
<p>Krysta:  Riding gear is important in my opinion and I am glad you feel the same way.  Thanks for bringing up the moto.donation site too.</p>
<p>Rob:  I will try and keep a consistent focus on safety.  No none should jump on a scooter or motorcycle without knowing all the facts.  Thanks for maintaining ride2die, it is an important tool.</p>
<p>7500 hits a day!  Wow.  That is amazing and a testament to the power of your content.  For some it is probably a rubbernecking experience but I bet for many it is a sobering one.</p>
<p>hrw115:  I&#8221;ll check out moto-donations more closely and focus one of my blog entries on that sort of community action.</p>
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		<title>
		By: hrw115		</title>
		<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/#comment-212</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hrw115]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 00:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.195.124.229/~scootet3/?p=716#comment-212</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[moto-donations.com&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I find that fascinating - and wonderful!  I was not aware that the community had such a support network to enable people to donate safety gear like that.  When I got rid of my grandmother&#039;s vehicle - I donated it to a similar cause.  The vehicle was given to someone whom was unemployed in order that the person could find a job and continue to have meaningful transportation to and from their job.  I would hope that places like moto-donation.com can help make motorcycles and other 2 wheeled modes of transportation more viable for people whom perhaps cannot afford gas, car insurance, a car, etc.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A wonderful thing to share.  I hope other riders will keep it in mind as they cycle through their gear.  :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>moto-donations.com</p>
<p>I find that fascinating &#8211; and wonderful!  I was not aware that the community had such a support network to enable people to donate safety gear like that.  When I got rid of my grandmother&#8217;s vehicle &#8211; I donated it to a similar cause.  The vehicle was given to someone whom was unemployed in order that the person could find a job and continue to have meaningful transportation to and from their job.  I would hope that places like moto-donation.com can help make motorcycles and other 2 wheeled modes of transportation more viable for people whom perhaps cannot afford gas, car insurance, a car, etc.</p>
<p>A wonderful thing to share.  I hope other riders will keep it in mind as they cycle through their gear.  🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/#comment-211</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 20:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.195.124.229/~scootet3/?p=716#comment-211</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good blog. Balanced presentation of the risk of riding.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http//www.ride2die.com is my site. I have been riding for 35 years and have had more than serveral friends die on motorcycles. The site gets over 7,500 hits a day, check the comments page which is linked at the bottom of the site. Thanks for contibuting to motorcycle safety awareness. Rob]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good blog. Balanced presentation of the risk of riding.</p>
<p>http//www.ride2die.com is my site. I have been riding for 35 years and have had more than serveral friends die on motorcycles. The site gets over 7,500 hits a day, check the comments page which is linked at the bottom of the site. Thanks for contibuting to motorcycle safety awareness. Rob</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anonymous		</title>
		<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/#comment-210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 05:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.195.124.229/~scootet3/?p=716#comment-210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hey, Steve - &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;m responding to a comment of yours on another blog, about wearing jeans but wanting more protection.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;m just getting back into riding and  a) can&#039;t afford spiffy stuff now (thank heavens for moto-donations.com!)  and  b) they don&#039;t make gear for tall, rounded women!  (grumble) &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyway, I solved the problem by buying mens jeans that fit my hips and taking the waist in about a foot, then buying &quot;replacement&quot; pads from Aerostich and attaching them. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have hip (soft) &#038; knee (hard over soft) protection at a not-too-unreasonable price (I think it was about $45 for the set).  Had to use fabric glue and buy extra velcro so I&#039;d have more than one pair of riding jeans, but they work fine. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;~ Krysta AT uwm DOT edu &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;PS - like the &quot;bumblebee&quot; jacket!  When I get to buy a &#039;Stich, it&#039;s going to be high-vis w/ either orange or black ballistics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Steve &#8211; </p>
<p>I&#8217;m responding to a comment of yours on another blog, about wearing jeans but wanting more protection.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just getting back into riding and  a) can&#8217;t afford spiffy stuff now (thank heavens for moto-donations.com!)  and  b) they don&#8217;t make gear for tall, rounded women!  (grumble) </p>
<p>Anyway, I solved the problem by buying mens jeans that fit my hips and taking the waist in about a foot, then buying &#8220;replacement&#8221; pads from Aerostich and attaching them. </p>
<p>I have hip (soft) &amp; knee (hard over soft) protection at a not-too-unreasonable price (I think it was about $45 for the set).  Had to use fabric glue and buy extra velcro so I&#8217;d have more than one pair of riding jeans, but they work fine. </p>
<p>~ Krysta AT uwm DOT edu </p>
<p>PS &#8211; like the &#8220;bumblebee&#8221; jacket!  When I get to buy a &#8216;Stich, it&#8217;s going to be high-vis w/ either orange or black ballistics.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steve Johnson		</title>
		<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/#comment-209</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Johnson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 01:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.195.124.229/~scootet3/?p=716#comment-209</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[When you ride, you know you&#039;re putting yourself into a dangerous situation.  You know there are crazy drivers out there, and you know you can get killed at any time.  Yet you ride anyways.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are many people who refuse to ride a two-wheeler because they see things in such a logical-perspective, that they think it&#039;s stupid to ride in traffic.  You and I see the freedom and enjoyment of riding, and take the risks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The only way to get rid of idiot drivers, is to create a government that micromanages us to such a degree that there is no more freedom in riding and driving.  In that sense, can you really blame government for inadequate safety laws?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;d rather have the freedom and deal with the idiots.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you ride, you know you&#8217;re putting yourself into a dangerous situation.  You know there are crazy drivers out there, and you know you can get killed at any time.  Yet you ride anyways.</p>
<p>There are many people who refuse to ride a two-wheeler because they see things in such a logical-perspective, that they think it&#8217;s stupid to ride in traffic.  You and I see the freedom and enjoyment of riding, and take the risks.</p>
<p>The only way to get rid of idiot drivers, is to create a government that micromanages us to such a degree that there is no more freedom in riding and driving.  In that sense, can you really blame government for inadequate safety laws?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather have the freedom and deal with the idiots.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RoG		</title>
		<link>https://scooterinthesticks.com/2006/05/riders-vs-cagers-is-this-real-battle/#comment-208</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RoG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 May 2006 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://69.195.124.229/~scootet3/?p=716#comment-208</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good post and interesting blog. To get a good dose of hands on rider safety instruction, just take a short ride around the streets of Taichung, the traffic is crazy and unpredictable. Fortunately I&#039;ve only had one accident. I like your analogy of cell-phone users as the new drunk drivers... Too true. Yes, I take all my photos myself. I love my scooter and ride it everywhere on this island. It&#039;s a locally made 125cc and it really kicks. I still see a whole bunch of really old Vespas around the streets which is an obvious testament to their quality. Thanks for visiting my blog and posting. Keep well and come again!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post and interesting blog. To get a good dose of hands on rider safety instruction, just take a short ride around the streets of Taichung, the traffic is crazy and unpredictable. Fortunately I&#8217;ve only had one accident. I like your analogy of cell-phone users as the new drunk drivers&#8230; Too true. Yes, I take all my photos myself. I love my scooter and ride it everywhere on this island. It&#8217;s a locally made 125cc and it really kicks. I still see a whole bunch of really old Vespas around the streets which is an obvious testament to their quality. Thanks for visiting my blog and posting. Keep well and come again!</p>
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